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Just a second.
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All right, so welcome to the Meaningful Jobs podcast season two.
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I'm your host, Adrian.
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And today we are really grateful to welcome Paul,
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who has a media and marketing background
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to come onto our show and talk about his passion in his work
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and how he found meaning in his work.
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So welcome Paul, hope you're well.
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Yeah, thank you, Adrian.
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I appreciate it.
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So, well, I think the reason why I reached out to you
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is because I saw your impressive work in terms of
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how you set up your own company and executed on a lot
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of inspiring projects in the marketing
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and your media industries.
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So could you maybe talk us through how we got started
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in this industry?
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Yeah, so first off, I live in Texas
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and I grew up here my whole life.
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And when I was about 20 years old,
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I got a job working for a public policy organization.
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And I was still in college at the time.
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And I was helping them do legislative work in Texas.
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And for the next, I guess, next eight years,
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I did some type of legislative consulting
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or political consulting for about eight years.
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And through that, I think I just realized
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that I had a natural knack for marketing.
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And it must have, I guess it just came to me intuitively.
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And it wasn't like, oh, I was so great at like, you know,
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coming up with these long scale marketing plans.
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But I think I was really good at just coming with creative ideas
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and just trying to think like, how does a consumer
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think about things?
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Yeah.
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And so we've got to launch a lot of videos
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and viral videos and campaigns and things like that.
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And really kind of bootstrapped, scrappy type things.
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Right.
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Limited budget, but big impact type stuff.
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What's it like a startup?
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Yeah, it was like a startup basically.
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Yeah.
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All these things were like, and so I
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think I specialized in almost this idea of like,
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sometimes I'd be plugged in with another organization.
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But then I would be in charge of like coming up
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with brand new ideas and just kind of like self managing
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an entire project from beginning to end.
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And I might incorporate other people.
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So like, I was working with a handful of companies.
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I was doing political consulting,
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then it was marketing consulting.
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But of course, I was basically go one man shop.
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And I would bring in contractors for different projects
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that were going on.
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So it's basically like you're like an entrepreneur.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Basically like a paid entrepreneur.
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And so it's almost like they would bring me in as like,
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if this is consultant just to execute particular projects.
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Well, one example is we had this one client in Austin, Texas.
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And they had like, they were like the largest privately
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owned janitorial company in Texas.
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So they had like maybe 3,000 employees, 2,000,
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something like that.
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And they did commercial cleaning.
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So like all the high rises in Austin,
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they did like 80% of the Austin market, 50% of the Houston
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market, stuff like that.
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Anyways, COVID happened.
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And suddenly, they realized that there
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was a unique opportunity where there were all these college
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kids that were at the top of their classes,
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but there were certain fields that were no longer hiring.
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So that might be petroleum engineering,
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because right people stopped driving their cars for like a year.
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So petroleum engineering, hospitality.
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So like maybe there was this kid that was like the 99th percentile
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of his hospitality, you know, MBA or whatever.
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And now these kids didn't have jobs.
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And so they came to me, one of these clients came to me and said,
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hey, Paul, how do we go about and finding all these kids who
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are obviously very sharp, very dedicated, competitive,
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and they would be great hires in their industry,
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but their industry is no longer hiring.
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How do we find those kids and bring them
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into our set of companies?
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Because even though our companies have nothing
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to do with petroleum engineering,
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we're a commercial cleaning company,
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but we're looking for leadership talent.
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How do we get those kids?
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And so my job was to come up and figure out a marketing plan.
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How would we attract those kids?
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And so we spun out this creative idea like, hey,
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we'll set up this thing we'll call Leadership Academy.
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And we began, we launched this program to identify these kids.
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What's this entirely, your own idea?
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Yeah, it's pretty much my idea.
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Yeah, well, I mean, it was a collaborative idea.
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We talked through iterations.
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And so I was in charge of launching the marketing
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campaign, coming with the name of the thing,
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figuring out the curriculum.
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And I worked with other people too.
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I shouldn't take all the credit for it.
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But I was in charge of launching this thing from an idea out
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into the market within two months.
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And so within two months, we launched this thing.
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I think we had 3,000 applicants.
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And we had a kid, and we chose the top five.
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And we had the pick of the crop.
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And so we had this one kid, and he had just
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missed the US Olympic team because he was seed number four.
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And they took the top three into Kathalon.
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So he missed the Olympic team.
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But highly competitive, very sharp guy,
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got his MBA in business.
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And he was just a really, really sharp dude.
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And so we brought him into the program,
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had this other guy, and he was like a sharp dude too.
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He had gotten his master's in law,
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and he had doubled major in chemistry and stuff
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and all this stuff.
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Really sharp kid, but he just didn't have job prospects.
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And so we got all these sharp kids, brought them in.
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We did a one year class with them,
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and we showed them our series of companies
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that we were working with.
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Because it was not only the janitorial company,
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there was also a landscaping company that was all
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owned by the same set of partners.
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And so I was working for all of them.
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And in the end, we're now in our third year,
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about to launch our fourth year of existence.
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And of the 15 kids that I've gone through a program,
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I think 14 of them have stayed around to actually stand
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our series of companies.
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And so it's been wildly successful.
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So those are the types of things that I was tasked with doing.
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And I know it took a long time to tell that story.
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Oh, it's completely fine.
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I was fascinated by it.
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And more fascinated by the success rate of only five out
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of 3,000, basically.
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Yeah.
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But that's even harder to get into than an Ivy League
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school, I guess.
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Yeah, yeah.
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It's really true.
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And we had kids from Ivy League applied to our program,
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actually.
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Yeah.
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We had the captain of the Notre Dame football team
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join our program.
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I mean, really sharp guys.
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So how did you actually find this passion of yours
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in marketing?
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Yeah, great question.
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You know, that is a great question.
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I think I sort of stumbled into it.
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Because I think marketing was just a natural fit for me.
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And I couldn't even really encapsulate
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why I felt passionately about different things.
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But sometimes I could look at someone's marketing and just
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be like, I wouldn't even call it marketing.
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I would just look at what they were doing
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and what they were saying publicly to the audience
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and how they were trying to get customers.
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And I would just be like, well, that's not compelling.
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There's no reason.
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I wouldn't choose your product.
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But here's the things that would.
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And so just some things came naturally.
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Again, I'm not like a genius marketer.
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But there's just some things came real naturally.
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And then I think I always love reading marketing books.
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I don't know if you can see the books behind me, though.
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Are they all marketing books?
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A lot of them are.
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Yeah, all of these are marketing books,
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or business books, leadership books.
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And I love to read these things just for fun.
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In fact, actually, it goes like, I
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don't know if you can see my camera.
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The books go like three levels deep, actually.
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Wow.
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I just saw one level, and two showed me the three level.
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Yeah, so.
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But I love reading.
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And it's like, yeah, I love just reading these books.
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So I could just get a couple ideas from each person.
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That's why it's probably great for people
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to listen to your podcast, actually.
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Because just listening to people,
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not everyone's a genius.
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But there might be a couple of smart ideas from each guest
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or each book that you read.
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As long as you're kind of inundating yourself
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in that culture and that.
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Some things will eventually stick.
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That becomes part of your memorandum of operation,
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your MO.
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to find your passion early in your career
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so that you don't so-called waste time, I guess.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Not all people can do this.
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And you said you somehow just stumbled into this.
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So would you say it's more luck or would you,
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or if you think about it, any instance?
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Yeah, I don't know if it's luck.
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I actually think God also really
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helped guide me through this process, too.
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Even though, in retrospect, I can tell God was the one
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guiding me.
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But I don't think I really understood the time.
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So interesting thing.
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So I stayed in the political arena for about eight years.
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And I was doing marketing-type stuff
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for different political candidates.
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But then back in 2018, I got really tired with Texas politics,
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really burned out.
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The political arena was no longer healthy for me.
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I think I was taking it too personally.
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And so I shifted entirely into business marketing at that point.
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And around the same time, started my own podcast.
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And I think, for me, I think it was a better fit,
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because now I was actually finding better fit,
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just for my own self, I think, of where my skill sets really
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aligned clearly.
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And instead of thinking about candidates,
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I was thinking about companies.
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And it was really healthy for me at that point, I think.
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So you mentioned quite a lot of big switches
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within the marketing and media industry.
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So whenever you make a big switch,
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do you go through a decision-making process?
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Like, how do you determine the point?
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Yeah.
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I do, actually.
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Yeah, glad you asked that.
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So when I was in 2018, one of the things was,
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I was just sick and tired of political consulting.
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And I knew I had a penchant for doing business consulting.
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But there was this awesome thing where
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I still wanted to be creative and think of my own things.
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And I'd been creating stuff for other clients for years.
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But now I wanted to create something of my own
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that I would control the destiny of.
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And also create something that was long-term.
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And so that's why we kind of thought of the podcast.
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But the way we came about that process,
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because I knew I wanted to create something of my own.
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But I wasn't sure what was it.
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Was it a product? Was it a course?
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Was it a community?
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Was it a pot?
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I don't know.
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And so there was a book that I read around that time,
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which is where-
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Oh, you have it here.
266
00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:47,800
Yeah, I have it right here, actually.
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It was called Nothing to Lose Everything to Game.
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And it's actually a story about a gangster act,
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a true life story about a gangster
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and how he became a business guy
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and left the gang world and everything.
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But he had an interesting premise in there,
273
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an interesting exercise, which we did,
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which he said, when you're ever trying
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to make a major life decision,
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maybe for business, like,
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I'm gonna switch my career path
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or maybe I'm gonna start a business.
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So one of the best things you can do
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is sit down with a piece of paper.
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And this is tedious.
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It's gonna take a time, but do this.
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Make a huge list and write down three categories.
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Write down a list of your assets.
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So it's basically like stuff that you own,
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your money, your stocks, your bonds, your house,
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your cars, anything that you have access to.
288
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Maybe you've got a friend and they let you use them.
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Just make a list of your assets.
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And then make a list of your life experiences,
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things that you're good at, your skills.
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Like, you know, I did this, I did this, I did this,
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I'm good at that, make that whole list right there.
294
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And then make a list of your relationships.
295
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Because relationships are so important.
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So like, I know this person and they do this.
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I know this person.
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Go through your LinkedIn, go through your Facebook.
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That might take you all day long
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00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:57,720
because you probably got 2,000 Facebook friends,
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couple thousand LinkedIn friends,
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some of them there's some overlap.
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00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,080
But just go through the exercise
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because you'll remember stuff like,
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00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,120
oh yeah, I've totally forgot about this guy.
306
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,040
But I'm good friends with him or I would feel comfortable,
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00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,200
at least giving him a call and asking for a favor.
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So go through the exercise.
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It's gonna take you all day.
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But then when you're done,
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then begin looking for kind of broad categories.
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Like, are there like things that like,
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okay, these are kind of clusters.
314
00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:21,000
Like, hey, it's weird.
315
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,600
I happen to know a lot of people in the real estate space.
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Or I know a lot of people in the film industry.
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Or I know a lot of people in the,
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and just kind of think of these broad categories.
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And then look for what is your unfair advantage?
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What is it that like you and your life experiences
321
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:38,480
that God has given you,
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00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,360
is going to allow you to have an unfair advantage
323
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that most other people wouldn't be able to have?
324
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:44,960
So you're looking for those categories.
325
00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,520
So you're taking, it's basically your asset inventory, right?
326
00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:48,680
You're like, yeah.
327
00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:50,520
And like, after you do this,
328
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see what is it that you might be able to do
329
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that no one else is gonna be able to do
330
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,920
the same with excellence that you can do?
331
00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:58,000
And through that process,
332
00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,440
that's how we decided to start the podcast
333
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:00,640
that we have now.
334
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:01,480
Wow.
335
00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,640
I can totally feel your passion,
336
00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:05,560
excitement when talking about this.
337
00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:07,440
And I think I'm very impressed.
338
00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,720
Your passion, the energy you have.
339
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:16,720
And I always wonder how people can become so involved
340
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,880
in what they do and become really fully immersed in it.
341
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,840
Aside from obviously the monetary rewards that come with it.
342
00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:29,160
So can you really talk us through how you can just,
343
00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,560
immerse yourself and not just pull up with the money?
344
00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:33,400
Yeah, yeah.
345
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:34,560
So when we first started our podcast,
346
00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:38,200
so for some context, my podcast is called Compell.
347
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,280
I interview people with unique stories
348
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,760
how Christ has transformed their life.
349
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:43,600
Right.
350
00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,120
And these are always really interesting stories.
351
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,240
We had one lady and she came face to face
352
00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,160
with an assassin who was sent to kill her
353
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,240
because she was defending Christians in court.
354
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,880
We had another lady and she and her husband
355
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:56,560
were missionaries in the Philippines
356
00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:59,920
and they were kidnapped by terrorists and held in the jungles
357
00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:02,000
for a year as hostages.
358
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,920
We had another guy and he was at the Pentagon
359
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,440
when the 9-11 plane hit the building
360
00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,680
and he was about a hundred feet away from the plane,
361
00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:14,240
covered in flames, burning up and he was going to die.
362
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,080
So each of these people have a really unique story
363
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,160
of how Christ transformed something in their life
364
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,360
or how they saw God at work.
365
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,320
And when I say Christ, I mean Jesus Christ,
366
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:25,960
who I believe is the Son of God.
367
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,600
And I know that maybe not all your listeners believe that
368
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,680
but I believe it and my audience does too.
369
00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:33,440
So that was the show that we created.
370
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,160
And so that was something I felt really passionate.
371
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,880
So in 2018, I did this activity and I was like,
372
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,000
okay, I want to do something
373
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,800
and I'm just going to start out with it.
374
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,040
It may not make a lot of money
375
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,000
but it needs to be something that I'm passionate about
376
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,480
because my passions are going to what's going to keep me doing
377
00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:48,800
it and hopefully it becomes something
378
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,600
that I can continue doing long term
379
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,520
even though it may not make money at the beginning.
380
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,080
And so that's how we ended up deciding to start a podcast
381
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:57,800
because we could be doing that exercise
382
00:13:57,800 --> 00:13:59,640
to realize like we had the right connections
383
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:01,560
in different spaces and we knew the right people
384
00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:02,960
that would be great guests.
385
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,840
So we made this podcast and for the next five years
386
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:08,160
it didn't make money.
387
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:09,760
I mean, it made a little bit of money
388
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,760
but it wasn't like paying my household expenses
389
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:13,600
or anything like that.
390
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,200
So instead what was going on is that I would still do
391
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,120
business consulting for about nine months out of the year.
392
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,040
You would save a bunch of money
393
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:22,720
and then for three months out of the year
394
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,520
I would then close my client books
395
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,400
and I would just work exclusively on the podcast
396
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,440
and just do a big long sprint
397
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,760
on creating these really high quality episodes
398
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:33,960
that I had a team I worked with
399
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,160
and we would subcontract them out.
400
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,400
And so we would raise just a little bit of money
401
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,320
from our audience and from donors
402
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,600
and with that money we were able to cover expenses
403
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,680
but then my living expenses were always covered
404
00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:46,720
just by my consulting work I did.
405
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,320
And so I would do nine months of consulting
406
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,040
take three months off do the podcast
407
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:52,760
and then do nine months of consulting again
408
00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:54,360
take three months off do the podcast
409
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,680
and we did that for five years.
410
00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,480
And every year that we did that
411
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,720
every time we came back with another podcast season
412
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,320
the show would grow more and more and more.
413
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:04,880
And so finally six months ago
414
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,640
we finally went full time on the podcast
415
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,000
and that's what I do full time now.
416
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,600
But to answer your question specifically the passions
417
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,080
I think it really was the pack
418
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,800
I found the right market fit for me at least
419
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,760
that my passions allowed me to continue working on the show
420
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,640
even though it wasn't making money.
421
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,040
And eventually now we've got to the point
422
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:24,160
where now it is making money
423
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,040
we're able to work on it full time.
424
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,200
Wow, perhaps I should think about this as well.
425
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:30,720
Yeah, yeah.
426
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,320
My podcast for three months exclusively.
427
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,000
In terms of our audience who might be struggling
428
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,200
in what they do, perhaps they might earn a lot of money
429
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:43,280
but they might feel miserable
430
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,080
as a lot of people I've encountered do.
431
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,880
Do you have any advice for them?
432
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,440
Yeah, okay, so back when I was doing political consulting
433
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:52,720
like I was making a lot of money
434
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,720
and I'm like I say I was making a very good income
435
00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:57,640
very good income.
436
00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,160
And yet I was at the season of life where I was like,
437
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:05,840
man, I was like so emotionally invested into the outcome
438
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,560
of our political clients campaigns
439
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,480
that if like a male piece came out
440
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,440
that said lies about my candidate
441
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:13,360
even though they were lies
442
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,920
I would be emotionally upset or disturbed.
443
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:17,880
And unfortunately that would then carry itself
444
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:19,360
over into my home life.
445
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:20,920
So like I would come home
446
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,240
and I just wouldn't be engaged with my wife
447
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,360
because my mind would still be thinking about work.
448
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,000
And so it was really unhealthy.
449
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,320
It had become very unhealthy for me.
450
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:31,640
And again, I was making a lot of money.
451
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,320
It was really good, really great income.
452
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:34,520
Right.
453
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:36,560
And yet it was not worth the toll
454
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,000
that was taking on my family.
455
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:40,920
And so I would just encourage anybody out there like,
456
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,080
hey, you know, well two things.
457
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,400
First off, hey, it's not worth losing family time
458
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,440
because like who at the end of their life says like,
459
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,520
oh man, you know, you're laying your deathbed.
460
00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,120
Are you really going to say like, oh man,
461
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,000
I wish I'd spent more time working.
462
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,440
Oh man, I wish I'd got like, you know,
463
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,640
another three months worth of emails done.
464
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,520
No, no one's ever going to say,
465
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,520
instead they're going to say, oh man,
466
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,280
I wish I'd spent more time with my kids
467
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:08,640
when they were growing up.
468
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,120
Oh man, I wish I'd made more memories with them.
469
00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:13,120
That's what they said to end of their life, right?
470
00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:15,480
So like life is way too short to spend working
471
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,840
at a cubicle doing something that you hate, right?
472
00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:19,320
So don't forget like, you know,
473
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:20,880
your work does not equal your life.
474
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,040
Like work should be a tool to enable what you're trying
475
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,200
to do with your wife and your kids and stuff like that.
476
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:28,920
So that's one thing I would offer.
477
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,480
Second thing I would offer is even if you do have
478
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,480
a debt beach up and you hate your debt beach up
479
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,720
before you go out and quit the next day,
480
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,600
make sure you're working on an exit plan.
481
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:38,440
Okay.
482
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:39,600
So that's what we would do with our podcast.
483
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,680
Like even though I wanted to start the podcast,
484
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:42,960
I wanted to quit all the political work,
485
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:44,400
but I knew that if I did that,
486
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,760
we could put ourselves in a bad financial bind.
487
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,080
So instead I went to all the existing political clients
488
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:53,480
that I had and I slowly began to turn down political work.
489
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,560
But instead I knew that a lot of our political clients,
490
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,920
they also had business work that needed to get done awesome.
491
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,320
There's a lot of politicians and political folks,
492
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,280
you know, that have aspirations.
493
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,080
They have a business side of things,
494
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:06,280
like they own a company or something.
495
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,240
That's what it's allowed them now to have the financial
496
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:09,960
cushion to run for political office.
497
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,640
So I went to all those guys and I would start turning down
498
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:13,920
their political work, but then I'd be like,
499
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,600
Hey, by the way, hey, I saw this XYZ thing with your business.
500
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,000
Hey, can I help you out with this XYZ thing?
501
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,240
And because I already had a relationship
502
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:21,640
in the political sphere, they already knew
503
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:22,480
they could trust me.
504
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,680
And so they let me work on business stuff instead.
505
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,960
And so I slowly exited the political arena
506
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,760
and just transferred all my relationships
507
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,520
into their businesses instead.
508
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,600
I was able to use that as my financial cushion then
509
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:35,400
to make my podcast happen.
510
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:36,640
Well, I think it's a great point you make
511
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,640
because a lot of people or a lot of gurus out in the world
512
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,960
might just tell you to follow your passion,
513
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,200
but don't follow any sort of plan.
514
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,160
So I think I kind of touched on this early in the podcast,
515
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,120
but I did ask like how you sort of formulate a plan
516
00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:55,520
to make a change.
517
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,840
So when you try to get off politics,
518
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,160
obviously you were earning a lot of money,
519
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:03,640
but then you had to give up on that.
520
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:08,720
And was there a time where you kind of regretted your decision
521
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,920
or kind of questioned it?
522
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:12,920
Actually, there's never been a time like that actually.
523
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,080
I think we were always, I mean, there was a time where I thought,
524
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,160
like, hey, maybe the podcast isn't going to work.
525
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,400
I'm trying to think right now though.
526
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:21,960
There might have been a time where I was like, man,
527
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,320
the podcast growth is a lot slower than I expected.
528
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:25,840
I think that happened in our very first season.
529
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,720
Like I thought we were going to launch the big speech audience.
530
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:28,320
No, there wasn't.
531
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,600
It was a very small audience.
532
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,120
But I was like, but because I'd chosen something
533
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:35,840
that I was personally passionate about at the end
534
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,240
of that podcast season, we were doing maybe 300 downloads a week.
535
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:40,680
But I was still really excited about it.
536
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:41,920
I was like, man, I love doing this.
537
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:42,600
This is really cool.
538
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,040
Totally worth it.
539
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:45,560
Even if we only let's let's do it again.
540
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,240
And so, you know, so that's why we decided to do a second season.
541
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,240
And our second season, we tripled in size.
542
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,720
We ended that season doing about 1,000 downloads a week.
543
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,400
And then the third season, we ended tripled in size again,
544
00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:58,800
did about 3,000 downloads a week.
545
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:00,960
You know, you could do the math on that.
546
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,040
We're now on season six now.
547
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:04,400
So, yeah.
548
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:05,720
Well, just a side question.
549
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,200
For those who maybe want to start their own channel or podcast,
550
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:10,880
how difficult would you say it is?
551
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,400
And, you know, any prerequisites maybe?
552
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:13,960
Yeah. OK.
553
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:14,800
So here's a couple of thoughts.
554
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,560
One, it could be really simple.
555
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:17,600
It could be really easy, right?
556
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,200
But it's kind of like this is principle.
557
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:20,800
Like you get what you pay for, right?
558
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,640
Yeah. So like if someone wants to start their own podcast,
559
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:24,720
great, good for them.
560
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,120
It's really easy to do.
561
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:28,880
But what you got to think about is like, are people going to come
562
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:30,640
and then are they going to return?
563
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,120
Just because you convince someone to listen to your podcast one time,
564
00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:36,960
right, you can convince anyone to listen to your podcast one time, maybe.
565
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,440
But is it good enough that they'll come back a second time?
566
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,160
Not only that, is it good enough that not only will they come back
567
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:47,040
the second, third, fourth, fifth time, but will they also then tell a friend?
568
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:48,480
And so what we did with our show,
569
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,680
because there's so many podcasts to choose from, like,
570
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,960
and so there's a lot of other Christian podcasts out there
571
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:54,760
that focus on Christian testimonies too.
572
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,400
They share other people's testimonies.
573
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,200
But what we wanted to do is we wanted to create something that was good enough
574
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,800
that people would come back a second time and so good that they would
575
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,000
then tell their friends.